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    ACC Aggression Course

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    Admin
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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:46 am

    I've just finished module 2 aswell. I didn't go into as much detail as you though Carole which is probably why I only got a B+! I didn't discuss calming agents, just disected a diet, I chose Luath as we sell it and I have changed a lot of dogs onto it with great success.

    Have started module 3 but feel I need to do a lot more reading. I was bit frustrated when I got Module 2 back as there were a lot of comments about things I could have included which I know and practice all the time!

    I really need to be more organised. The problem I have, I think, is that I do snippets here and there, if I am busy I can go 3-4 weeks without looking at the module then come back to it when I get an hour or so free, so my thought pattern is not consistent and is continually interrupted, so doesn't flow! That's my excuse anyway Smile

    Have sent off the application for Compass Adv Dip and have spoken to UKRCB about student membership so I really need to get my head down now Shocked
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    Carole.T

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Carole.T on Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:02 pm

    Well Done Chris,

    B+ is great.

    Yes well, Module 3 - I suppose I should be doing some as we speak. It is difficult isn't it fitting it all in? My 'target' to finish is before Xmas!!

    Let me know how you get on re: UKRCB application. I sent Robert Alleyne and email a couple of months ago but have heard nothing. I was enquiring if I could use the references I submitted a couple of years ago when I didn't pursue it further. As we have moved, I don't know anyone well enough who knows me re: dogs if you see what I mean, to supply a reference. Also I enquired if one needed a degree now, as a local and recently attained BSc degree Applied Animal Beahviour trainer/behaviourist, wrote an article in a local free paper that trainers 'now' needed a degree standard education!

    It made me mad as it is totally wrong and misleading! I contacted the Animal and Behaviour Training Council (who she mentioned as requiring this academic level) who stated that by 2020 (!!) they aim for people in the Industry to have a degree such as a BSC - BUT, the Adv Dip CBM is accepted as a 'degree standard (Foundation degree)' level (but lower than a BSc)and meet the criteria of the organisations who had signed up to be members. Plus they confirm it is not required legally, just the 'Industry' working towards a common level.The chairman of the ABTC is none other than David Montgomery.

    I also contacted the APDT, in the fact that this APDT Trainer stated you needed a 'degree standard' to do Dog Training. They confirmed this was not the case.

    It is so frustrating isn't it? Even the local RSPCA here don't want my help re: Training/Behaviour work as (per their HQ) they only want people belonging to the APBC/APDT (The APDT office told me "People who do not run classes would find it difficult to pass" - As I don't run classes...well what's the point applying?!).

    Ironically, a Behaviourist who rang up to have a go at me once when an owner called me in urgently, as the booked Behaviourist could not visit for weeks, this Behaviourist told me I wasn't qualified and to just do Training or Pet Sitting to gain experience. She is an APBC member and I have since found out that her degree is in 'textiles'!!

    Seems you can't win, the 'bar' is always one step too high.

    Sorry to moan.... well done again on Module 2.

    Let me know re: UKRCB progress won't you?

    Regards

    Carole

    Admin
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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:11 am

    Hi Carole, I rang Robert as I had emailed a while ago and didn't get a reply. He confirmed that the Compass Adv Dip meets all their criteria and is acceptable for membership. As soon as you are registered on the course you can become a student member and get access to the UKRCB Forum.

    I have a friend who has a Phd in Animal Behaviour and she gets really cross that she could become a member of the APBC even though she has very little practical experience with companion animals other than her own pets, yet I can't as I don't have a degree.

    They are now trying to regulate and the APBC is now stating that by 2012 (I think that's the right year) members must have a relevant degree rather than any subject.

    I thought you were going to start running classes? There are some people who are members of the APDT who don't, they just do one to ones. Why don't you ask Stella if you can see the criteria for membership then you can judge whether or not you can meet the requirements? From the posts you have written it appears you certainly have the theoretical knowledge.

    Chris

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    Carole.T

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Carole.T on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:12 pm

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for the update on the UKRCB application. I guess I will have to call him also.

    On the one hand I was thinking of running classes, but since looking around they are well covered for APDT classes round here. I did do the APDT assessment a couple of years ago and got 'max' marks in all categories but the practical. Personally, I don't think my class went that bad and I have visited worse APDT before and since moving! I emailed the office about it recently and Val replied.

    So, that is why I am dubious about passing an assessment unless I am running my own classes (I was taking classes at the DogsTrust when I had my assessment, but I don't think they were impressed). So, it seems the decision is being made for me re: classes of my own. I will just have to look further afield for suitable locations and venues.

    Hubby is due to leave his London job at the end of Feb next year, so at least I won't be on my own all week and he can help me out if/when I find a venue.

    Thanks for your comments re: theory.

    I have tried to get in as much practical as I can over the last 10+ years by assisting and taking Pet dog classes at various clubs and being a volunteer at an RSPCA,Mayhew Animal Home and DogsTrust (dog walking, socialising and latterly Training classes). So, with all that and the money spent on studies it is a waste not to pursue it, but I don't see why we should be forced down the road of a degree before experience!! Heaven knows how much a degree course may cost now anyway with the 'capping' being removed, you'd never recoup the money unless you could get a grant (Mind you there is likely no chance in the Dog business of earning thousands a year once completed, to then have to pay it back anyway?!!).

    Life never gets easier does it?!

    Regards

    Carole


    Admin
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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:09 pm

    Hi Carole, the assessment for the APDT has changed now did you know? I remember my assessment was awful. The assessor came out and watched 3 of my classes, I was so nervous. She then asked why I hadn't covered certain things. I said I had already covered them in previous weeks and pointed out the class handbook I had given her a copy of when she arrived. She said she couldn't read it as she had forgotten her glasses! Anyway, assessments are now run over a weekend I think with a group of people taking it in turns to teach and with a couple of assessors. Why don't you look into it, I'm sure it is a much better system now.

    Chris
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    Carole.T

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Carole.T on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:02 pm

    Hi again Chris,

    Yes, I was assessed under the new system. You have to provide an awful lot of theory work first. The feedback was all very conflicting, I had passed my A.Dip CBM by then and my ACC Dip.Canine Pyschology. So I suppose that is why I got max for the theory. BUT in my feedback I was told I knew little about dogs (or something to that affect!) and inspite of my previous Training class work and years as a Rescue Centre volunteer.

    I didn't think it went 'that' bad on the day, I knew there were a couple of things that I could have done better though. One lady came up to me to say how much she enjoyed it, but I was told by the assessors that some people say things like that to be polite. A bit unprofessional from the assessors I thought and disrespectful to the lady concerned. I must admit I was taken aback somewhat by the style of the feedback, it was very negative and demoralizing for a 'positive' dog training organisation.I did give my 'feedback' about the feedback (!) but to no avail. I guess it was not to be on the day.

    Hence a little reluctant to re-apply until there is nothing they can pick up on, so running classes looks like the way I will have to go.

    Still not rung Robert, likely to do so next week when have some time (STILL got my 'Policemans heel' and hobbling about like a good 'un back & forth to physio. Apparently it will go, but takes months!).

    Had some good feedback by a fellow dogwalker the other day though to lift my spirits, she said that she was glad she had met me as I have given her much more confidence about her dog (barky GSD) so we try to meet up once a week for a sort of joint 'training walk'. She attends a local dog club I am thinking of taking Jody to, so that's good. I helped judge recently at a local Pet Show (the first time I've seen stick insects close up, let alone had to 'judge' one!!) my fellow judge was a local vet (who has his own APBC Behaviourist & APDT trainer already) so at least hopefully I am beginning to get known in the local community more re:training etc.

    It's all a bit 'off topic' isn't it?....so better get on with Unit 3 of the ACC course study !

    All the best

    Carole

    Admin
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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:40 am

    Hi Carole, that's a shame. As you say there should have been some positive feedback, first rule of coaching!

    Where are you based?

    I need to get back to the books to get module 3 finished, have started it but am just re-reading James O'Heare types of aggression. I must put more detail in this time, I'm determined to get an A out of them!

    What are you doing for your special study?
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    Carole.T

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Carole.T on Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:27 pm

    Hi Chris,

    I am in East Dorset.

    Well, it never rains but it pours as they say.....Yesterday I dislocated and broke a finger!!

    End of walk, Jody on lead, another dog we knew dashed up and did her usual racing around Jody teasing him to play. Usually I manage to brace myself for any jumping to play by Jody, but had thick gloves on, tried to drop the lead but I had the handle round my wrist and the lead caught between my fingers. I knew something had happened, got home, took gloves off and hey presto...one twisted finger.

    Managed to drive to a small local hospital, who then sent me on to the big General some miles away (luckily I could still use my thumb and index finger for the steering wheel). Result, more x-rays and one very, very painful finger manipulated back straight and taped up!! Spent nearly 8 hours in all at various hospitals, luckily hubby gets home from London Friday lunchtimes, so he could walk Jody again and drive me to the General hospital.

    Trouble is, it is my dominant hand so writing is out of the question until the pain subsides. Sadly I am not ambidextrous!!

    Have to go back to the fracture clinic next week sometime, but have been warned that if it does not heal straight may need to be done under a GA pale

    So, difficult walking Jody now. Do I keep him on lead and risk the other hand, or let him have all off-lead walks where he has the habit of racing off for several minutes! At least I can walk out my back gate straight into the Forest without going on icy pavements. Looks like his 'Recall' training may become somewhat compramised UFN (hubby is only here at weekends to take over). Trouble is, there are a few manic play dogs we meet that race around us out of control when I have Jody on lead, and of course he is stimulated to join in so can't blame him really. Even working out what shoes I can use (can't manage my lace up boots) or how to keep my hand warm are silly things you take for granted aren't they?

    At least its taken the edge off my sore foot!!

    I shall email Wendy to say that Module 3 may be several weeks delayed now as difficult to write (I can only type one handed now and I am the sort of person who has to write up my research & draft answers first).

    Re: Special Study.
    The latest events have sort of confirmed my choice really.
    As I am not involved too much locally with dogs, nor know many dog people, I thought that I would research 'canine aggression' dvds and videos being as I seem to have a lot by various well known Trainers and Behaviourists (inc a Cesar Milan dvd I have bought, to give a wider viewpoint!). Not sure what sort of things I can take from each one to provide a 'comparable' study, but its all I can think of really and probably the best I can do in the circumstances!

    I hope things are a little better your end!


    All the best

    Carole

    Admin
    Admin

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:00 am

    Hi Carole - ouch!! Hope its not too painful any more. Always difficult if you have a dog on lead and the others are out of control.

    Are you anywhere near Chrissy Gough? She's down in the New Forest somewhere.

    If there are plenty of APDT trainers around you perhaps you'd be better off concentrating on behaviour and one to ones?

    Chris
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    olwen

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  olwen on Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:33 pm

    Hope the heel has healed, or at least on the way.

    I got disheartened after my first APDT assessment, didn't pass and left feeling I shouldn't be allowed to go near a dog again. Someone gave me a big hint about them not passing people the first time as those who come back are the ones who really want it!

    My feedback about the feedback was not to polite. I also had someone who was able to ask about the new assessment method at the AGM that year.

    I'm going to join, or at least attempt to join UKRCB next year, I want to get a few more modules under my belt first. I also think that an organisation that accepts any degree over experience is just silly.

    Admin
    Admin

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:33 pm

    Sounds as though my assessment wasn't too bad then!

    All I can say is the APDT really does have the welfare of the dogs at heart. If anyone has any constructive criticism of the process please let me know and I will bring it up with the committee at our next meeting.

    Chris
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    Carole.T

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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Carole.T on Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:19 pm

    Hi Chris,

    Re: Are you anywhere near Chrissy Gough? She's down in the New Forest somewhere.

    Yes, I am about a 25min drive to her. Chrissy did very kindly let me observe one of her lessons last year.

    I have been looking around for a suitable local club to take Jody, some APDT, some not. The weird thing is that so far, ironically, a 'non-APDT' is coming out on top - shame on me!!!

    I'm a bit of a wimp, being an 'ex-townie' driving down all these dark, foggy, icy, twisting country lanes at night, so I am migrating towards the nearest. The journey to Chrissy's would be all of the above plus the wild New Forest ponies and cattle wandering across the roads...with a dog that still is not keen on car travel, it is also unfair on him to make longer journeys than needed, just to do something the human part of the relationship wants him to do!

    My observations of the local clubs so far has been very interesting, and strange how the 'non-APDT' has so far, all things considered, come out as a front-runner!

    They don't do clicker work but one member I spoke to would like to learn, so I may be able to get involved more with them 'training wise' eventually?

    Ironic isn't it? Mind you, if I do get more involved with them further down the line,that may go against me when applying for APDT no doubt as they have no APDT Trainers there already.

    Oh well, I will just have to concentrate on my various injuries and ailments healing up first and sort it all out after Xmas. santa

    Thanks for asking about my dodgy 'heel' Olwen - Yes, still causing probs, since July now. Tried acupuncture the other week - NOT for me No ...had every different pain imaginable in my foot all at once as a result. I'll stick to the 'one' pain and the longer haul recovery I think.

    All the best

    Carole





    Admin
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    Re: ACC Aggression Course

    Post  Admin on Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:19 pm

    well, that's annoying, just typed a reply and its disappeared! Oh well, here we go again.

    Carole, if you have found a group that isn't APDT but you are comfortable with the way they train then go for it. As long as they use kind, fair and effective techniques the APDT shouldn't have a problem with it, in fact they should welcome you as an opportunity to gain the support of other established dog trainers.

    Not all reward based trainers are members of the APDT.

    Don't blame you for not wanting to negotiate narrow roads and livestock in the dark - I'm used to it, having lived in the sticks for many years, although we don't have herds of semi wild horses to contend with just the odd fox or deer Smile

    Chris

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